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Discussion: Learning The Trade: "Dop Sticks, Dop Pot and a Doll Bench"
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WizardOfTheStone |
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Jul 14 2009, 9:36 AM EDT
| Post edited: Jul 24 2009, 10:05 AM EDT
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Keyword tags:
Citrine
Doll Bench Alterations
Dop Pot
Dop Stick
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pvjjh |
1. RE: Learning The Trade: "Dop Sticks, Dop Pot and a Doll Bench"
Jul 14 2009, 1:15 PM EDT
Now that is thinking - great ideas! It just shows what a little imagination can do for getting in to the hobby or trying out something new. Way cool!Do you find this valuable? |
jakesrocks |
5. RE: Learning The Trade: "Dop Sticks, Dop Pot and a Doll Bench"
Jul 20 2009, 1:23 PM EDT
Hey Wiz, get yourself some Opticon. It's a sealer that will seal those cracks, and can't be seen after it's cured. It's a bit expensive, but a little goes a long way. I'm still using a kit that I bought about 15 years ago. Store it in the fridge, and it will keep for a long time.Don Do you find this valuable? |
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pvjjh |
6. RE: Learning The Trade: "Dop Sticks, Dop Pot and a Doll Bench"
Jul 20 2009, 5:40 PM EDT
Great idea Don. That may save the stone. Wizard, when did it crack? Was it during dopping or cutting? Or do you know. Lots of times unless you really look at the stone, you will cut and the find the inclusion. Like you like it open up when you are cutting and it was there all along. Heck even with the inclusion, keep cutting. It is a good stone to practice on. If you mess up, then it doesn't matter. Are you cutting with water? Anyway, you are doing great. Have fun! Paul Do you find this valuable? |
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skeeter614 |
8. RE: Learning The Trade: "Dop Sticks, Dop Pot and a Doll Bench"
Jul 20 2009, 10:26 PM EDT
"Well I have been reluctant in added any more to any page here.. and have been suffering with other issues.. The news was hopeful at the beginning.. and I felt I was doing very well.. Twice I was able to dop the stick with the Citrine.. Once from the bottom and once from the top.. The fracture developed soon after I started reshaping the bottom of the Citrine.. Although I had water handy.. and dipped often.. to cool the stone.. the fracture increased..The stone is still on the dop stick in fear that Once I attempt to remove it. it will brake at the Hairline.Nice photo and illustration on the doping, like the way you made it look so easy. I'm still working on the tumbling, but have wanted to start useing the grinding stones. I'm going to Shelton to get grit i think i will get some wax to, might give it a try. So times one gets tired of waiting for the tumbler. skeeter Do you find this valuable? |
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pvjjh |
9. RE: Learning The Trade: "Dop Sticks, Dop Pot and a Doll Bench"
Jul 20 2009, 11:07 PM EDT
"Well I have been reluctant in added any more to any page here.. and have been suffering with other issues.. The news was hopeful at the beginning.. and I felt I was doing very well.. Twice I was able to dop the stick with the Citrine.. Once from the bottom and once from the top.. The fracture developed soon after I started reshaping the bottom of the Citrine.. Although I had water handy.. and dipped often.. to cool the stone.. the fracture increased..The stone is still on the dop stick in fear that Once I attempt to remove it. it will brake at the Hairline.Hey very nice page there wizard. The only thing I would recommend when cutting is more water. Messy as it may be, that stone needs some lube. It is possible the stone got to warm curing cutting. But like like our pics and page. Very nice! Paul Do you find this valuable? |
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jakesrocks |
10. RE: Learning The Trade: "Dop Sticks, Dop Pot and a Doll Bench"
Jul 20 2009, 11:07 PM EDT
Hey Wiz, You may have overheated the stone. Internal stresses will sometimes cause a crack if the stone overheats. Try to set up some sort of drip system for your grinding wheel to keep it wet at all times. If you have a tray under the wheel, put water in it, and place a sponge in the tray so it just touches the wheel. That should keep the wheel wet enough. If you decide to try Opticon, warm the stone slightly, mix a small batch of Opticon, and apply a little over the crack. It will absorb into the crack, and when cured, you will barely be able to see the crack.Don Do you find this valuable? |
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jakesrocks |
11. RE: Learning The Trade: "Dop Sticks, Dop Pot and a Doll Bench"
Jul 20 2009, 11:16 PM EDT
| Post edited: Jul 20 2009, 11:43 PM EDT
"Nice photo and illustration on the doping, like the way you made it look so easy. I'm still working on the tumbling, but have wanted to start useing the grinding stones. I'm going to Shelton to get grit i think i will get some wax to, might give it a try. So times one gets tired of waiting for the tumbler.Hey Skeeter, What's keeping you from grinding your stones? You've got to get your hands wet and muddy. You may mess up the first couple, but we've all done that. (Don't let anyone tell you they cut a perfect cab on the first try). Anyway, you should have lots of hounds in Washington who'll help you get started. Man, get them hands wet already. Don Do you find this valuable? |
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jakesrocks |
14. RE: Learning The Trade: "Dop Sticks, Dop Pot and a Doll Bench"
Jul 21 2009, 8:48 AM EDT
"I have a feeling your correct on this statement.. Again I'm still in the testing stage and I should have started with a lesser stone to allow for screw ups. My wife is a bit disappointed.. But not at me.. just the Citrine. It was one of the largest most clear Citrines I have even been to extract and attempt to shape."Hey Wiz, you can still salvage that Citrine with the Opticon. It will fill and seal the crack. By grinding on a dry wheel, you're overheating the stone. Then when you try to cool the stone in cold water, it will crack. It's just like heating a water glass in the oven and pouring cold water in it. You can also ruin your diamond disk by running it dry. You have to keep it wet at all times while grinding, sanding and polishing. Good Luck. Don Do you find this valuable? |
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jakesrocks |
16. RE: Learning The Trade: "Dop Sticks, Dop Pot and a Doll Bench"
Jul 21 2009, 10:09 AM EDT
"Not long ago, I located a plastic sheet and I have been holding it.. Perhaps I need to design a shield of cover for the dremel and set the container of water under the dremel.. Thus submerging the diamond bit 1/4 into the water.. Thou the dremel's speed would then become an issue.. what should it be set at to reduce the issue of slinging water everywhere.."Most electric motors used with lapidary equipment run at 1725 R.P.M. You may want to run a bit slower if water spray is an issue. Since you're grinding on the side of your disk, a hood completely over the disk, spaced about 1/2" away, and extending about 3/4" on either side of the disk should do the trick. Watch that your Dremel doesn't overheat, or get water spray inside of it. Don Do you find this valuable? |
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jakesrocks |
18. RE: Learning The Trade: "Dop Sticks, Dop Pot and a Doll Bench"
Jul 21 2009, 11:18 AM EDT
"No issue there:Not worried about the extension cord. Just make sure you don't get water spray into the breather holes around the nose of the Dremel. It could lite you up like a Christmas tree. Don Do you find this valuable? |
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pvjjh |
19. RE: Learning The Trade: "Dop Sticks, Dop Pot and a Doll Bench"
Jul 21 2009, 1:09 PM EDT
Wizard, I know you are trying to trade for things and that is great. However, if you need dopping wax, most of the lapidary supply houses will sell it or you can find it on eBay at very reasonable prices. The resource pages has lots of options for you. http://cash-and-treasures-wiki.travelchannel.com/page/Lapidary%2C+Jewelry%2C+RMM%2C+Resource+and+Classified+AdsYou barter page is nice. You find that stuff in dumpsters? You could have used the existed classified ads page that was already setup for selling and trading. No matter, your page looks good. As for the heat problems, using that dremel, unless it is variable speed, it is running way to fast. You could grind that stone for a few seconds and it would get to hot. That thermal shock stuff is really bad. Citrine and the quartzs are to bothered by heat unless it is extreme. There are some stones that you really don't even want to heat up to dop as they can't handle the heat at all. Then you glue them to the dop with 2 part epoxy or super glue types of stuff. (CA glue) My faceting machines run at 1750 rpms, are sheaved to least 4 or 5 to 1 and are variable speed and I rarely run them beyond half speed. There is always water dripping on to the lap when running as well. The dremel idea is good and I think it would work but it will take some practice and experimentation to figure out how long you can grind wihtout over heating the stone and keeping the stone and disk lubricated and cooled. To be continued... Do you find this valuable? |
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pvjjh |
20. RE: Learning The Trade: "Dop Sticks, Dop Pot and a Doll Bench"
Jul 21 2009, 1:09 PM EDT
"Wizard, I know you are trying to trade for things and that is great. However, if you need dopping wax, most of the lapidary supply houses will sell it or you can find it on eBay at very reasonable prices. The resource pages has lots of options for you. http://cash-and-treasures-wiki.travelchannel.com/page/Lapidary%2C+Jewelry%2C+RMM%2C+Resource+and+Classified+Ads I was just thinking, on the net you can find plans to build what is called a jam peg which a lot of these off shore facetors use. This is a board with a series of holes that are drilled at different angles which allows the facetors quick angle changes while faceting. They aren't as accurate as a faceting machine with a protractor but for figuring out a way to hold different angles you may want to think about some like a board setup like that. Just thinking out loud here. lol Oh yeah, one more thing about dop wax and I think we touched on it before, but don't let the wax get too hot and smoke. Once the wax smokes it has started loosing it's strength. Keep on workin' and you get something figured out no problem. Paul Do you find this valuable? |
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jakesrocks |
21. RE: Learning The Trade: "Dop Sticks, Dop Pot and a Doll Bench"
Jul 21 2009, 3:04 PM EDT
Good point about the overheated dop wax Paul. I don't remember seeing it mentioned before, and never thought to mention it myself. Nothing like having an almost finished stone pop off the dop stick and smash on a concrete floor. (Been there, done that).Don Do you find this valuable? |
dbsagates |
22. RE: Learning The Trade: "Dop Sticks, Dop Pot and a Doll Bench"
Jul 21 2009, 10:15 PM EDT
You guys and your wax, Pauls right that wax is a major pain in the you know what. It never ends with something nice coming off and flying around the room and about 75% of the time it breaks. I have never had anything come loose with gel super glue and can be used right away no waiting or fooling around. I'm tell ya it saves again as much time and is ten times stronger. As for the dremel if it isn't variable speed you need something to hold to the drill bit or wheel and thats KY jelly, which I have found will hold up the best if you can't use water. When I bore a hole in rocks or gems I always use my dremel or fordom. I have a pile of that wax that I will never use and sticks too. Who ever wants it just send me a self addressed lable and with shipping so high anymore it will take what $10.00 to get it to ya. DB hey the price is right too!
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jakesrocks |
23. RE: Learning The Trade: "Dop Sticks, Dop Pot and a Doll Bench"
Jul 21 2009, 11:07 PM EDT
| Post edited: Jul 21 2009, 11:31 PM EDT
Hey DB, I've got all of the green wax that I'll ever use, but I've got a few sticks of the brown facetors wax if anyone is interested.I love the smell of hot dop wax in the morning.Makes me think of victory over the stone. Don Do you find this valuable? |
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pvjjh |
24. RE: Learning The Trade: "Dop Sticks, Dop Pot and a Doll Bench"
Jul 21 2009, 11:32 PM EDT
"You guys and your wax, Pauls right that wax is a major pain in the you know what. It never ends with something nice coming off and flying around the room and about 75% of the time it breaks. I have never had anything come loose with gel super glue and can be used right away no waiting or fooling around. I'm tell ya it saves again as much time and is ten times stronger. As for the dremel if it isn't variable speed you need something to hold to the drill bit or wheel and thats KY jelly, which I have found will hold up the best if you can't use water. When I bore a hole in rocks or gems I always use my dremel or fordom. I have a pile of that wax that I will never use and sticks too. Who ever wants it just send me a self addressed lable and with shipping so high anymore it will take what $10.00 to get it to ya. DB hey the price is right too!"Well DB I still prefer to use wax over gel glue unless I absolutely have to use the glue. Very small stones generally have to have the glue treatment. I hate the glue cause I find it harder to clean off than the wax. Just drop the stone in some rubbing alcohol and wipe it off. I have had to scrape glue off and I am always worried about the finish on the stone. Of course I am talking faceting. As for your failure % if I have a 5% failure, I would be very surprised. I use the old wax to dop rocks to blocks of wood slab them. That works great. As for time to get a stone dopped wax vs glue. There isn't much different. I have had more failures using gel glues by trying to start to work the stone to fast. And that is with an accelerator too. I have better luck waiting until the next day. Then there are no failures. The wax is ready to go in a few minutes using an alcohol lamp heating the wax and stone dopping and as soon as the wax is cool, you are ready to go. Only takes a couple of minutes. It is interesting to see what works for one and not for another. Of course we really aren't talking apples to apples. Cabbing compared to faceting, a similar but then again they aren't even close too, if that makes sense. Paul Do you find this valuable? |
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jakesrocks |
25. RE: Learning The Trade: "Dop Sticks, Dop Pot and a Doll Bench"
Jul 21 2009, 11:52 PM EDT
I think I had 1 stone pop off in the last year using dop wax. It bounced out of the drip pan, and into my lap. No harm done to the stone. Just wash the mud off and redop it.Don Do you find this valuable? |
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dbsagates |
26. RE: Learning The Trade: "Dop Sticks, Dop Pot and a Doll Bench"
Jul 22 2009, 12:08 AM EDT
I guess it all boils down to what your used to and yes I am cabbing most of the time also. I guess I got used to useing the Gel-glue because I always use it to hold my rocks to other stones for cutting, so I can get the whole rock sliced. As for cleaning the gel off it comes off so easy with a blade that won't hurt many stones. DB
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jakesrocks |
27. RE: Learning The Trade: "Dop Sticks, Dop Pot and a Doll Bench"
Jul 22 2009, 12:19 AM EDT
Hey DB, I learned using dop wax back in the 50's, and will probably die with a wax covered dop stick in my hand. I agree with Paul. Gel glue does have its use on very small cabs, but my eyes ain't good enough to do those little ones anymore.Don Do you find this valuable? |
