Location: Washington

Discussion: Washington Forest/ Weyerhaeuser UPDATEReported This is a featured thread

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gamaliel114
gamaliel114
Washington Forest/ Weyerhaeuser UPDATE
Oct 21 2009, 3:02 AM EDT | Post edited: Oct 21 2009, 6:44 AM EDT
CALL: 866-636-6531 (WA) FOR INFORMATION ON CURRENT RESTRICTIONS ON WEYERHAEUSER MANAGED LANDS.


If you have additional information current or relevant please share here. Basic Information will be updated on this first post. Always go to the source...that is provide links or first hand knowledge only. Please report abuse of sites to moderators who will forward the information as they say fit. Concerns about your claims and property too should be so forward :-) -ed

THIS THREAD WILL BE EDITTED AS WE SEE FIT, NO QUESTIONS ASK EXCEPT BY PM

Weyerhaeuser Hunter and Recreational Use Hotline for Oregon: 888-741-5403

Washington: 866-636-6531



LATEST FROM BIG W.:
http://www.weyerhaeuser.com/Company/Media/NewsReleases/NewsRelease?dcrId=09-07-28_WeyerhaeuserClosesallTreeFarmstoPublicAccessinWAandOR


http://nw-trail.org/node/1385
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gamaliel114
gamaliel114
1. RE: Washington Forest/ Weyerhaeuser UPDATE
Oct 21 2009, 6:27 AM EDT | Post edited: Oct 21 2009, 6:48 AM EDT
BigFisherman
Today, 4:01 AM EDT
The rules for hounds appear to be governed by fish and game, not Weyerhauser. At Vale they have posted Lucas Creek because of environmental damage and they are guarding it against those who they believe are digging or likely to dig in the streams. Pure and simple. I would not be surprised if they are using electronic surveillance for this. There is a sign up one road that says they use it for security.

Otherwise there is absolutely nothing that I have found yet that says Vale is closed to someone who wanted to walk in and pick up a rock or two outside of the posted areas at Lucas Creek.

It very well may be that the motorized access is only for hunters, but many of them are also rockhounds. I chatted with a couple of them.
.......

I have been informed that Weyerhauser does not have the authority to close these tree farms specifically to rockhounds. There is an agreement with the state, which owns much of the land they manage, for recreational access for huniting, fishing, rockhounding et al. When the gates open for hunters the land is open for hounds.
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gamaliel114
gamaliel114
2. RE: Washington Forest/ Weyerhaeuser UPDATE
Oct 21 2009, 6:28 AM EDT | Post edited: Oct 21 2009, 6:28 AM EDT
aubreyreynolds9@gmai
Yesterday, 10:52 PM EDT
I just called the toll free number. The hot line has a recorded message that the Vale Tree Farm is open to public access with the following rules:
1. Non motorized entry (walk in and pack out )
2. Inactive areas - areas that the gates are closed. Apparently the open gate areas indicates that logging operations are ongoing
3. No ATVs even in the back of a pick up
4. No camping
6. No fires
7. No removal of Forest products except mushrooms and black berries
for personal use
8. Hunters will be allowed motorized access on certain days.
9. No fire works
10. No target practicing
11. Pack out all trash
The operator says that Weyerhauser establishes the rules to prevent destruction of company property and environmental damage.
Bill
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BigFisherman
BigFisherman
3. RE: Washington Forest/ Weyerhaeuser UPDATE
Oct 21 2009, 5:45 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 21 2009, 5:45 PM EDT
There are several locations that are not posted and for which there is no official notice where rockhound traffic is being restricted or directed by security guards to deal with sites where there has been excessive gathering. FOLLOW THE GUARDS DIRECTIONS AT ALL TIMES. Be poite and respecful and ask them what you can do to help them out. And if they would like, you could post those requests here.

Obviously you should stay well away from any equipment and active operations. The closer the recreational traffic is to their equipment the greater the potential for eco-nut vandalism and the greater the workload for security.

With the new restrictions on digging near streams, consider not carrying a shovel if you are surface hunting. If you dig, try to stick to digs well away from the streams. Again a workload issue.

Consider filling in old holes. Besides, you might be amazed what you find in the tailings of frantic hole diggers.

Some believe that this is private land with no limitations on your take or its use. THIS IS NOT TRUE. Recreational access to the tree farms is subject to the state law for recreational gathering. Commercial use of your take is prohibiited. Like hunting or fishing on these lands, what you take is for your own use. Don't obligate security to call the enforcement authorities on your behalf.

Think securtiy workload. When they have less to do they may well need less access control.

Weyerhauser also gets big tax breaks for allowing recreational access. There is a point where security costs and managment overhead can chew this right up.

Once they get frustrated and do not see a reasonable answer then it could take some time to convince them otherwise.

I know I am preaching to the choir for the most part. Common sense and common courtesy are the order of the day and an absolute pre-requite to remedy this situation, so pass it on.
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limbwalker52
limbwalker52
4. RE: Washington Forest/ Weyerhaeuser UPDATE
Oct 27 2009, 9:26 AM EDT | Post edited: Oct 27 2009, 9:26 AM EDT
See actually what happened is that Weyerhauser actually logged up from a side stream that enters Lucas Creek some several miles up. Some very nice agate nodules were found at the bottom of the Clearcut in which well...hard telling...but if you go up North Fork of the Newakum about 2 and a half mile hike you will see a natural mudslide for thousand feet towards the Newakum. Logging has the largest impact on the rivers and creeks...Large companies...well lets blame the rockhound...WRONG... 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
washatonian
washatonian
5. RE: Washington Forest/ Weyerhaeuser UPDATE
Oct 28 2009, 1:41 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 28 2009, 1:41 PM EDT
I would be most interested in knowing what the Fee Title ownership to these lands in question are. Sounds like there is more to this story than the tailings we see as limbwalker suggest. Hmmmm. Weyerhauser is a giant amoung Washington corporations and is deeply connected and rooted in the politics of business in the state. Do you find this valuable?    
syonix
syonix
6. RE: Washington Forest/ Weyerhaeuser UPDATE
Oct 28 2009, 8:52 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 28 2009, 8:52 PM EDT
"I would be most interested in knowing what the Fee Title ownership to these lands in question are. Sounds like there is more to this story than the tailings we see as limbwalker suggest. Hmmmm. Weyerhauser is a giant amoung Washington corporations and is deeply connected and rooted in the politics of business in the state."
They are also going broke.

I think with the right pressure we could get them to sell this land.

I think this might be a real approach we should think about.
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Rockhound5555
Rockhound5555
7. RE: Washington Forest/ Weyerhaeuser UPDATE
Oct 28 2009, 9:25 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 28 2009, 9:25 PM EDT
That might be an idea. Maybe just sell the right to collect there. Do you find this valuable?    
BigFisherman
BigFisherman
8. RE: Washington Forest/ Weyerhaeuser UPDATE
Oct 28 2009, 10:10 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 28 2009, 10:10 PM EDT
"They are also going broke.

I think with the right pressure we could get them to sell this land.

I think this might be a real approach we should think about."
The financial landscape is driving many things right now. With the increasing value of many forms of chalcedony and other semi-precious stones, we are at a tipping point. When you are the first to find a large stone balanced on its point, you can sometimes decide which way it falls.

My spider's sense as an entepreneur says Weyerhauser most likely recognizes the potential value here. But then I manage a small investment company that funds prospecters at the grub stake stage. This does not quite fit what I am looking for, but there are probably dozens of sites that could be operated profitably on private timber lands along the west slope.

With what you and I and the other "lahar hunters" know about thier properties, and the variious working models for pay digs and the like, they could likely bootstap to commercial levels. I mean, leaverite is going for a dollar a pound wholesale for the Chinese market.

Permanent shutdowns seem to be the least likely way for the stones to fall. There are a couple of ways that might hang the rockhounds out to dry.
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limbwalker52
limbwalker52
9. RE: Washington Forest/ Weyerhaeuser UPDATE
Oct 28 2009, 10:57 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 28 2009, 10:57 PM EDT
Their signs will tell you if it is legal to pass through with a vehicle. The signs are colored.; Green, Red, Yellow Etc. They like the roads not travelled too much when log trucks are hauling. As far as collecting on their land it would seem feasible for them to give permits and not say 170 dollars for a day permit. Something reasonable. They do not have the ability to enforce all their some 750,000 sq miles of land from Snoqaulmie to Raymond so it is much easier to lock the gates... Do you find this valuable?    
BigFisherman
BigFisherman
10. RE: Washington Forest/ Weyerhaeuser UPDATE
Oct 28 2009, 11:22 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 28 2009, 11:22 PM EDT
"Their signs will tell you if it is legal to pass through with a vehicle. The signs are colored.; Green, Red, Yellow Etc. They like the roads not travelled too much when log trucks are hauling. As far as collecting on their land it would seem feasible for them to give permits and not say 170 dollars for a day permit. Something reasonable. They do not have the ability to enforce all their some 750,000 sq miles of land from Snoqaulmie to Raymond so it is much easier to lock the gates..."
At White River they used to charge $60 for motorized access. I heard a rumor (a chat room thread I can't find again) that new owners now sell a limited number of gate keys for $250 or so and limit rockhounds to one bucket per day.

I can't fit a half mile long seam in a bucket. Mebbe the best stuff along the edges...

One advantage to paying a fee is that the rock would likely be re-sellable for the artisans among us. Since I aspire to carve, I would like that. Now I feel like I need to keep a provenance for each rock I buy or collect.
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engineersteve
11. RE: Washington Forest/ Weyerhaeuser UPDATE
Oct 31 2009, 12:27 AM EDT | Post edited: Oct 31 2009, 12:27 AM EDT
I requested the brochure from Hancock Timber, who now owns and manages the White River Tree Farm area, as well as some other areas near Kapowsin and Eatonville. They sent me a .pdf version of their recreational access information, if you want to pm me an e-mail address I'd be happy to foward it on, although read on and you may not care.

There will be 500 total permits issued for the White River area for 2010 for motorized vehicle use. They are $225 and they go on sale December 1st. They are only good for the purchaser, spouse, and kids under 19, so if you wanted to take another rock hounding buddy who's not family, yep, another permit needed. They don't say anything about rock collectors or any limits.

I have a dilema however. From where I live, I can be on the property in about 45 minutes max. During the summer, I could even get in a few hours after work when it's light out later. I have Tim's DVD describing generally what is there and close but approximate locations. Was the material that good or plentiful that anyone on here would consider $225 if you could easily go 30-40 times a year? I'm intrigued by the precious opal on the map, but who knows how much. Anyone have any field experience out there from a cheaper time?
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limbwalker52
limbwalker52
12. RE: Washington Forest/ Weyerhaeuser UPDATE
Oct 31 2009, 1:07 AM EDT | Post edited: Oct 31 2009, 1:07 AM EDT
come to the Puyallup valley gem and mineral club they will have an answer directions and material that comes from their Do you find this valuable?    
limbwalker52
limbwalker52
13. RE: Washington Forest/ Weyerhaeuser UPDATE
Nov 7 2009, 3:38 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 7 2009, 3:38 PM EST
"CALL: 866-636-6531 (WA) FOR INFORMATION ON CURRENT RESTRICTIONS ON WEYERHAEUSER MANAGED LANDS.


If you have additional information current or relevant please share here. Basic Information will be updated on this first post. Always go to the source...that is provide links or first hand knowledge only. Please report abuse of sites to moderators who will forward the information as they say fit. Concerns about your claims and property too should be so forward :-) -ed

THIS THREAD WILL BE EDITTED AS WE SEE FIT, NO QUESTIONS ASK EXCEPT BY PM

Weyerhaeuser Hunter and Recreational Use Hotline for Oregon: 888-741-5403

Washington: 866-636-6531



LATEST FROM BIG W.:
http://www.weyerhaeuser.com/Company/Media/NewsReleases/NewsRelease?dcrId=09-07-28_WeyerhaeuserClosesallTreeFarmstoPublicAccessinWAandOR


http://nw-trail.org/node/1385"
Lucas Creek is a fish stream and some of the side streams too are fish streams. Salmon run this time of the year and then in April..Disturbing the Redds where they lay eggs is a NO NO in the streams. Steelhead run year round and I am not sure if they are steelhead streams or not. A person should not dig out of the creeks during the spawing time. And if they are steelhead creeks then they shouldnt be dug out at all. I can see a non fish stream being worked for agates and such. Weyerhauser has Post NO ROCKHOUNDING due to damage to the creeks...well least to say. I walked some of the upper clearcuts. Oh BOY! Want to see damage? The rockhounding is minimal in comparison to what the Logging Compaines have done...Blame the Rockhounds? Well never the less it says No Trespassing. We used to always probe and dig and stay out of the creeks and for the most part now we are not even allowed to collect or surgace collect in that area. Thanks to those who ruined it all for everyone else around the country who love to collect agates in that area,.
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